Nemo Nisi Mors

With regret I inform you that yesterday Claire / Kalistra has been removed from the guild, after not just crossing one but several lines.

The situation got severely out of hand in the officer chat, and without a need to go deeper into this, she was way out of line. Gary, Ally and James were present and are aware of what occured - I don't think it is productive to repeat accusations and bad language nor do I want to put Claire in a bad light. It should suffice for the other officers to agree that she was out of line. (Please do feel free to confirm this with them individually if you have concerns.)

We decided to let the situation in officer chat go and ignore it - given that only a few people were affected and that we did not want to cause further disturbance in the guild and create an unpleasant situation. Unfortunately Claire could not simply abide by this and started inciting trouble in guild chat itself. Again there is no point to dwell on what was said, please ask those who were there if you are concerned.

The limit for me was reached when Iero came online and said a polite "Hi Claire" at which she responded that it would be the last time he would say hi to her since she would be leaving the guild that night - and started to go off on one again.
We (James, the officers and myself) felt that this was purely to further stir trouble and get attention. At this point Claire and her alts were removed from the guild and I whispered her that she should log out, cool down, think things over and then come back before she says more things she will later regret.

Unfortunately she did not take this advice and send me a fair few rather bad insults. I have chosen to ignore what she has said to me as I have a thick skin and frankly don't really care - but the whispers she has sent to other people after this really upset both myself as well as everybody involved.
I don't know what exactly she has said to everyone, but I do know that what she whispered to Richard and Linn was completely out of order and I really don't appreciate that Claire does not only speaks badly about me being my back, but also spreads lies about not only myself but also Ally and the guild in general.

I appreciate that she is angry at me, for whatever reason but there is in my opinion no reason to involve the guild or spread lies about Ally who has never done anything to even remotely harm anyone.

I am really upset and disappointed about this and want to resolve this situation as quickly as possible. We have a fantastic group of people here together and I'll be damned if I let that be ruined by one individual in a bad mood.

There is much more to the situation then above, but I don't want to get down to her level and involve real life and work into this. James is fully aware of the situation as he works in the same company and again if you have any concerns at all - please do ask him about it.

We are currently discussion the situation thoroughly among the guild leaders and officers. When she was removed I indicated that she could come and speak to me once she calmed down and sorted her feelings out, then see where we go and even let her rejoin if she could be mature and calm - but her actions afterwards and the whispers she has send to people have caused such an upset within the guild that I am not sure how productive it would be to let her join the guild again. In the end if it would have been anybody else, they would have been removed from the guild a few insults and steps before she was - there is a limit to patience and we simply can't afford having somebody in the guild who talks about others in the manner she has done.

I appreciate your opinions, no matter if you agree or disagree with me or other people. We are not a dictatorship and you are free to express any opinion you want about this without any trouble. I do ask to stick to facts and post in a polite manner, I don't want this thread to end up in a thread slagging Claire off, nor do I want people to have a big argument. Please share with us what you think should be done with above situation so we can assess what a majority of the guild would like to do.

I sincerely apologise to anyone who got involved or upset by this situation and hope we can leave this behind us as soon as possible.

As far as feedback goes: Claire does not have access to this forum at the moment and regardless if she is out permanently or not this thread will be deleted once we are done discussing the situation. We should simply decide what people want to do, do it, and leave this behind us as soon as possible.
Nobody plays WoW to deal with issues, enough of that already in real life!

I would like to add myself to this that I think Claire is a nice woman, who has done plenty of positive things for the guild and can be fun to chat with.

However no matter how nice somebody might be, the things that occurred are as far as I am concerned so far out of line and disruptive to the guild as a whole that I am unsure of how she would fit into the guild in the future. We have rules in the guild that deal with respect and conduct and she has crossed these. As far as I am concerned this guild is about team-play and this involves not only looking at your own fun but also at other people.
Causing people to be upset is simply not acceptable.

I'm leaving this to the majority opinion - but foresee future conflict if she would rejoin the guild.
Either way I don't want to go through a situation such as this again and believe any rejoining, would there be any, should begin with a sincere apology to the guild as a whole...

what happened was just sad and unlucky, really hope you can clear it between you

[quote:aba2770dcf="ammagad"]what happened was just sad and unlucky, really hope you can clear it between you[/quote:aba2770dcf]

Unfortunately it is not that simple anymore. If it would only involve me and her, it wouldn't really have gone out of hand like this.

There are other people involved and some people who are very upset - even if Claire and I would resolve things (Which isn't too likely as she refuses to talk to me in a polite manner) then there are still other people who she would need to resolve things with as well.

I think the root of the problem lies in this conflict Claire has created with Peter, but she is utterly incapable of keeping it between the two of them and has dragged everybody else into it now. I for one am pretty furious not only with the way she has spoken to Peter which is in my opinion completely disgusting, but now the backstabbing. She has the audacity to accuse others of being childish... the irony overwhelms me.

I can't understand what I'm supposed to have done to piss her off, but saying I can't be bothered playing a healer any more is completely fabricated and unfair. I want a change but I've purposely selected a class which is capable of healing, and I'm also still leveling the shammy to have another healing option so I hope that clears that particular piece of bullshit up.

Anyway you can probably guess, I don't want to waste any more time on her, she certainly won't get my vote to come back, if she even wants to which I doubt.

i really do understand you, claire said alot of things about peter to me in whisper yesterday, and i know that nothing of what she said isent true, and its really weak trying to get everybody against peter only coz she got a problem with him.

Hey

I am very sorry to here this. I thought she was a fab girl, and I still do, but I understand your desicion and I hope that things are getting sorted out.

I am not aware of what has been said, and maybe that is for the best. I just hope u made the right desicion and whatever happens next will be for the good of the guild.

As invited…

I think that a lot of things have contributed to this whole event, some outside of the game but I think maybe some inside too, I will only discuss events that are going on here.

I am sure that guild members have had conversations with Claire over their feelings of being left out of instance runs or missing out of loot or even their future concerns about not getting into events. I know about these specifically but I feel that other examples are about especially if Ally has been somehow involved/attacked over not playing her healer (that suggests to me that if she had then we could of got 2 groups running.)

I think then Claire decided to take it upon herself to voice these concerns, as a champion of the people so to speak, in a medium that was unacceptable to Peter. I think that any of the guild chat may have been an attempt to get those people she was ‘fighting’ for to speak out, which escalated her tone when they didn’t into what was the final outcome.

I think the best thing for Claire to have done is point the people that voiced concerns to her directly to Peter so that he could address them personally and adjust anything or just put them down to meaningless rants. (Which is what I will assume they are/were)

My major issues is that Claire has taken the brunt of everyone’s individual gripes and that would not seem fair to me also that it has gone so far down the line or has grown so big that Claire does not want to come back and Peter wouldn’t accept her back if she did, that would be a shame as I think she could offer a lot to the guild on many different levels.

I do think that Claire, if she wanted to, should be able to give her side of the story if it was done without flame or derogatory comment.

Thank you Mike,

A few things I would say to that:

Ally.
One of the things people should really understand is that Ally, as far as NNM is concerned, is not a healer. She has helped out an immense amount of times and is always willing to jump in and help out if and when there is a gap that needs to be filled and she is available, which I think everybody is grategul for - but please remember that Succubus is locked into iO as far as raids are concerned. Ally intends to play a Shadow Priest in NNM and I am sure she will continue to help out on the healing lever if and when required. I even believe she is making a Shaman on the side for healing purposes but this is more long term. Other then that it is best she speaks for herself really ;-)

People with concerns.
I've spoken about this with a few people and the general consensus is that if somebody has concerns about something that they will voice these directly with myself or James. It is really much better for poeple to speak for themselves as small issues can grow out of proportion otherwise.

Claire being able to give her side of the story.
Claire has not been banned from the forums, the only thing that is gone is her guild access. Claire is still able to create a thread if she so desires - but I have also extended an invitation to speak about the issues if and when she desires.
From where I am standing she has taken things to an unacceptable and personal level and it would be apt for her to sort things out with myself and afterwards with the individual people in the guild. I have to say that I seriously doubt she would want to come back, there are issues beyond just WoW which for Claire's sake i'd rather not discuss here.

Guild rules.
In whatever way we turn the recent events, the guild has rules and a few of these were broken. I'd really like to move on and resume guild activities as per normal as things were going fantastic. Anyone who has such a major impact on the guild and causes such an upset among our members is a concern to me and whatever happens, regardless if Claire comes back or not - we should and will not tolerate another situation like this. If anybody has a bad day, please do come talk to us. If that doesn't resolve anything, take a deep breath, go offline for a bit or ignore people for a while - then try again. Nobody here is unreasonable and whatever is wrong, it can always be worked out :)

We are all here to have fun in our spare time, so let's make that happen!

Hey guys, girls and ALL u beautiful people.

I agree with Peter's last comments, let have fun and continue were we left off before this happend.
I will really gonna miss Claire, cause she was/is a fab girl as far as I now. I am glad I didn't get to hear or see what she wrote, and frankly I give a rats ass. But she has no right to speak ill of people infront of others or backstab someone.

Lets just move on and continue or journey.