Nemo Nisi Mors

[i:0d099ffeb6]This post will be maintained and improved by the Class Leader of this class, who will be able to edit this post. Please reply if anything needs updating in regards to your character(s).[/i:0d099ffeb6]

[b:0d099ffeb6]Active Main Hunters[/b:0d099ffeb6]
Kalyla
Pisi [Trial]
Simbrah
Ythyn

[b:0d099ffeb6]Active Level-70 Alts[/b:0d099ffeb6]
-

[b:0d099ffeb6]Specs/Roles[/b:0d099ffeb6]
Kalyla: Beast Mastery 41/20/0
Pisi: Beast Mastery xx/xx/xx
Simbrah: Beast Mastery 41/20/0
Ythyn: Beast Mastery 41/20/0

[b:0d099ffeb6]T4 Gear[/b:0d099ffeb6]
Kalyla: 2/5 Acquired
Pisi: x/5 Acquired
Simbrah: 5/5 Acquired
Ythyn: 5/5 Acquired

[b:0d099ffeb6]T5 Gear[/b:0d099ffeb6]
Kalyla: 0/5 Acquired
Pisi: x/5 Acquired
Simbrah: 1/5 Acquired
Ythyn: 1/5 Acquired

[b:0d099ffeb6]5/5 Imp. Hunter's Mark[/b:0d099ffeb6]
[b:0d099ffeb6]Ythyn[/b:0d099ffeb6]. All other hunter's should spend these 5 talent points somewhere else, preferably Effeciency.

Please update below whenever you can.

I will take 5/5 Imp. Hunter's Mark, but I would like to ask raid healers to always place a shadow priest in our group. This is the case in 90% of all cases, but sometimes we don't have a shadowpriest and it really kills the BM hunter dps output.

I'm also thinking of taking a different spec for the sole reason to buff the other BM hunters. I can't make up my mind. If only survival spec wasn't so damn gear dependant (gief 800+ agi!)

I will also clean up this thread. Thanks for pointing this out, Richard.

Nice one - I must admit my view was that you would be the logical choice for this, given your near 100% attendance rate on raids. And fair point about mana. If this change ends up gimping your dps too much (consdering you are also highest dps in our class) we may need a rethink.

The survival questoin is an interesting one - it may well be doable when you have a few more T5, but would also cost bucket loads in terms of changing all your gems and enchants to focus on agi rather than ap, and would be expensive excercise should we then conclude that its bringing no benefit. Obviously your call, oh illustrious leader :D. Happy to chat through in more detail in game if ya want.

[quote:6872918262="Sim"]The survival questoin is an interesting one - it may well be doable when you have a few more T5, but would also cost bucket loads in terms of changing all your gems and enchants to focus on agi rather than ap, and would be expensive excercise should we then conclude that its bringing no benefit. Obviously your call, oh illustrious leader :D. Happy to chat through in more detail in game if ya want.[/quote:6872918262]

I have done it before, Richard. And the results were frustrating. First of all it cost me total shitloads of gold to swap every enchant and gem back and forth. Second it was nowhere near as good as Marksmanship. That said, at our current level BM > MM so Survival was just utter crap. I was thinking about changing since my gear has massively improved since then (we were still farming Kara when I made the final switch to BM). In my HONEST opinion I don't think it's worth the trouble, gold and most importantly the results to switch to survival but I would happily theorycraft on this with anyone.

When it comes to hunter specs, I like to compare us with Warlocks:
[b:6872918262]Beast Mastery == Demonology[/b:6872918262]
Spec where the player depends heavily on pet abilities

[b:6872918262]Marksmanship == Affliction[/b:6872918262]
Player excells in the core essence of the class (hunters massively buff their shots, warlocks make best use of their DoTs)

[b:6872918262]Survival == Destruction[/b:6872918262]
Destruction being the spec I know least of, all I know I can safely say is that this spec is heavily gear dependant.

If I'm correct, Destruction spec is crit dependant. Survival does not HAVE to be crit dependant, but if it's for raiding, then yes it is (you can use Survival talents for PvP leaving the crit talents out).
The most important role as Survival spec is not personal dps, it is overall dps, as Survival hunters have the ability to boost the ENTIRE raid (not just one group (Trueshot Aura / Ferocious Inspiration)). This is done with the Expose Weakness talent. When maxed out (3/3) this talent will debuff the target after landing a critical hit. This debuff will increase the attackpower of ALL attackers on the debuffed target with 25% of the hunter's agility.

This brings up three things:
1) Expose Weakness is ONLY applied after a critical hit. This means the survival hunter must have a fair amount of crit chance (40% ish is not uncommon, but I still question if this is enough to keep the Expose Weakness up continuesly). Expose Weakness lasts for 6 seconds.
2) Agility will become the most important stat for the hunter. This will bring it's issues. First of all loot... It is not uncommon a rogue dagger or ring would be a perfect upgrade for a survival hunter, but due to loot priorities, the rogue will most probably get it (considering the rogue has the right spec to use that dagger in question). Second issue will be present during the developing stages of the survival hunter. There is a certain marker to cross before Expose Weakness has more benefit over Marksmanship. Trueshot Aura (MM) gives +125 AP (melee & ranged) to all party members. To reach the same AP buff, a survival hunter must have 500 agility (25% of 500 = 125). What comes into play here is that the Aura is constant, while Expose Weakness is not (if you don't crit enough, the debuff will 'fall off' the target). The pro is that EW applies to the whole raid rather than a group.
3) It [b:6872918262]DOES NOT STACK[/b:6872918262], which means having two (for example) survival hunters would perform inferior to one BM and one SV hunter (if put in the same group, Ferocious Inspiration will help the survivalist and a mutual cooperation will establish). Ferocious Inspiration DOES stack (+3% party damage output PER buff).

In my opinion (and please try to prove me wrong, let those brains work :P ) the best group setup for a survival hunter is:
1 Druid for Leader of the Pack (more crit chance = more EW = more raid dps)
1 Shaman for Grace of Air totem (more agi = stronger EW = more raid dps)
1 MM Hunter for Trueshot Aura (MM hunters benefit from raw AP, so EW is a sweet addition)
1 BM Hunter for Ferocious Inspiration (BM hunters trade both AP and agi for pet utility and speed, both Trueshot Aura and EW will boost the BM hunter even more)

Problem with this setup: BM hunter will not have shadowpriest for mana regeneration, and will prolly go OOM insanely fast.

When setting up groups for a survival hunter, the things to look at is what can increase agility and crit chance. When EW is kept up constantly, you can see this as a raidwide Trueshot Aura. When the hunter has 800 agi, the entire raid will recieve +200 AP (melee & ranged) so that's even superior to what Trueshot Aura can give.

Enough typing for now. WTB opinions.

My own opinion: T5 set bonus is BM oriëntated, also stats are an issue. Same with warlocks, I think T6 is the point where you switch to SV.

Ye i think T5 is more BM orientated in terms of talents as much as i like BM myself as the damage is brilliant, Survival spec has always interested me as ive never been in a group with one but ive heard its worth having one in raids for that 200+ AP which is alot :P etc so i cant really say how they perform in terms of damage.
And yes id also like to strengthin the idea of having a SP in the hunters group as it really does keep our damage output continuesly rolling as we dont have to conserve mana as much with shots.
But Marc only 2 things i can say , try going on the PTR an going survival spec an see what u think i know u wont exactly raid but its somthing u could consider if u are really interested in testing it. 2. if your bored as such being BM try out survival for a raid or two i know u wont do much in terms or Gems/ enchants with your current gear but all u can do is give it ago and try some moves i mean no one is saying that that is going to be your main spec or nothing :)

Keep us posted

I've tried all specs thoroughly, Adam, although it's a bit outdated now. I know for SURE that speccing Survival now won't benefit the raid enough, and will seriously downgrade personal dps. So the overal raid dps is lowered a bit. I would rather spec Survival with T6-eq. gear.

About PTR, I have tried 3-4 times to copy my character, but one time it was closed and the other times the queue was simply so long (6-7 days) that you couldn't click the button anymore. I do have the PTR client and patch installed. I'm kinda hoping I can pop in by accident. And I would love to try out survival spec with my current gear then.

(Gief private server :x )

Edit: Ythyn from Twisting Nether (PvP) to Test Server EU PvE (PvE)
Character Copy Successful

1 x T5

Clear out the trash as well plx :fouet:

Alin, can you check the first post and update accordingly, I need to know your tiered pve gear. I know you have a lot of pvp stuff but lets keep track of the pve stuff you have.

Pisi, can you post your tiered gear and exact spec, so I can update the first post.
Also, Alin, you still haven't replied here. I would like to update the thread.

I have 4/5 S3 all but shoulders

Pve set 2 T4 - Shoulder and chest